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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. --- After the loss of roughly $350 million a year in payments from the Seminole Tribe of Florida, House and Senate leaders are rethinking the state’s approach to gambling, one of the Legislature’s most-complicated and elusive issues.

The shift in direction could be good news for the state’s pari-mutuel operators.

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“What we need to start doing is looking at what’s available to us on the private side of the equation, versus just the compact,” Senate President Bill Galvano, R-Bradenton, told The News Service of Florida.

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House Speaker José Oliva said in a telephone interview he agrees with Galvano, who was the Legislature’s chief negotiator in a deal between the state and the tribe, called a “compact,” signed in 2010.

Passage of a sweeping gambling bill during the upcoming legislative session, which begins in January, remains a long shot.

Successful gambling legislation “has suffered from its own complexity and its many layers for years,” Oliva, R-Miami Lakes, said.

“And I don’t think that this year will be terribly different. We do have a governor that has fresh eyes and wants to see all of the options, and we have in President Galvano somebody that understands the issue in depth and wants to explore all options, and I’m certainly open to it as well,” he added.

The Legislature and Gov. Ron DeSantis this spring were unable to seal a deal between the Seminoles and the state aimed at resolving a protracted legal battle over controversial “designated player” card games operated by many Florida pari-mutuels. A federal judge found the designated player games violated a compact between the tribe and the state in which the Seminoles agreed to pay about $350 million a year in exchange for the “exclusive” rights to operate banked card games, such as blackjack, at most of its Florida casinos.

Sen. Wilton Simpson, a Trilby Republican who will take over as Senate president following next year’s elections, worked out a tentative agreement with the tribe during the 2019 legislative session. Under that proposal, the Seminoles would have paid the state at least $500 million a year, in exchange for a number of conditions, including a pledge that the state would shut down the pari-mutuels’ lucrative designated player games.

But, presented with the outlines of the agreement near the end of the spring session, DeSantis, who took office in January, refused to sign off on the deal, saying he needed more time to explore the issues.

Not long after the session ended in May, the Seminoles told the governor in writing they would stop making the annual payments to the state “until the illegal banked card game issue is resolved,” referring to the designated player games.

By then, the House and Senate had already decided not to include the tribe’s annual revenue-sharing payments in the state’s $92 billion budget.

Galvano, a lawyer, said the “ship has sailed” on whether the state can live without the money from the compact.

“The underlying point is, financially, we’ve moved on from the tribe. We didn’t rely on the revenue share last budget and there’s no reason to believe we have to recreate that revenue share going forward,” Galvano said. “If we’re not getting revenue, there’s no reason to provide exclusivity (to operate banked card games). We realize it’s a new day, so we’ll take it from there.”

Instead of focusing on how much the tribe will pay for exclusivity, Galvano and Oliva are open to examining how much the state could reap if the Legislature delivers on the pari-mutuels’ wish list.

Items on the table include “codifying” the designated player games, increasing bet limits and authorizing sports betting and fantasy sports, Galvano said. He’s also willing to consider other perks for pari-mutuel operators.

Lawmakers should “start looking at all those other opportunities, because if we can operate without the cloud of exclusivity and increase revenues for the state of Florida, then let’s do it,” Galvano said.

But there’s a hitch that will make the already-knotty gambling issue even trickier.

In November, Florida voters approved a constitutional amendment that will require statewide votes on future expansions of gambling. Those decisions previously had largely been in the hands of legislators.

The constitutional amendment “requires a vote by citizens initiative” for “casino gambling” to be authorized in Florida. “Casino gambling” is defined as “any of the type of games typically found in casinos” and that are defined as “Class III gaming” under federal law. Class III games include slot machines, blackjack, craps and roulette --- and sports betting.

Galvano said lawmakers have the ability to put their own gambling-related constitutional proposals on the ballot, such as “repealing that amendment and restoring the (Legislature’s) ability to expand gaming.”

Galvano also contends that, while the Legislature could authorize sports betting through passing a statute, lawmakers “could push that constitutionally” as an extra precaution.

The Senate president maintains the legalization of sports betting would not trigger the citizens’ initiative requirement, a position disputed by John Sowinski, the campaign manager of the political committee behind last year’s constitutional amendment.

“The Legislature neither has the authority to enact or propose an expansion of casino gambling in the state. Period,” Sowinski told the News Service.

Lawmakers still have the power to regulate pari-mutuels, and Galvano said he wants to look at regulations that can be addressed in state law, such as allowing pari-mutuels to relocate their permits, have longer operating hours and increase bet limits. Such perks would be especially beneficial to pari-mutuels in Broward and Miami-Dade counties, which have slot machines.

For years, pari-mutuel operators --- typically family-owned companies that have been in business for decades --- have complained that the state’s compact with the tribe put them at a competitive disadvantage. Lawmakers, too, have grumbled that the compact amounted to a sweetheart deal for the Seminoles, whose Tampa Hard Rock facility is one of the world’s most-profitable casinos.

Oliva pointed out that lawmakers have to make sure they represent all Floridians, including pari-mutuel business owners.

“We also have to make sure that if an exclusivity is going to be granted, that that exclusivity is properly compensated,” he said.

The speaker said his priority “is to come to some set understanding of what gaming looks like in Florida,” to provide certainty and predictability to pari-mutuel operators.

Reaching resolution on the issue won’t be easy, Oliva conceded.

“If the past is any indication, the odds are not great. But there’s a building pressure. If there’s not going to be a workable compact with the tribe, then we do have to figure out in what way are we going to manage gaming in the state, and what are going to be the proceeds of that to the taxpayers of the state,” he said.

Senate leaders haven’t ruled out another compact with the Seminoles, whom Simpson called “honorable” but “very, very tough” negotiators, and legislation that could aid the pari-mutuels and result in more money for the state.

“When you look at the magnitude of the dollars from the compact, ultimately, I think we hope we can work them both out,” he said. “If you cannot do that, then I think what the president is saying, find another way to get those resources. But you really have to think of it in terms of both, not each.”

We might have to make an unscheduled 4-5 day trip to Clearwater for a health procedure.
I enjoy playing 3:2 double deck $5 blackjack at the downtown Las Vegas casinos - MSS, the Cal, and similar casinos. My bankroll is modest, < $500. I know the barebones basics of card counting and got to try this on my last 3 short visits to Las Vegas in the past 2 years (small wins, <$100). I’m not seeking to make a fortune, just want to enjoy card counting. I’m not much of a social player, and most enjoy playing head-to-head with the dealer if I get to the tables when they first open. Wifey loves the social action; I avoid playing with her, because she doesn’t count, but always seems to win!
$10 blackjack would not work for me, and no 6:5 payback, only 3:2.
Runner-up favorite game is Deuces are Wild Video Poker.
My wife and & I are also foodies. High on my bucket list is to eat my first stone crab claws and try Key West Pink shrimp. For wifey, she adores a good fancy prime rib a la Lawry’s or Morton’s, i.e., not from a buffet line.
On our return to Honolulu, we’ll probably stay a day in Las Vegas - I hope the $5 bj tables haven’t disappeared in downtown???!!!
Anyone have some experience/knowledge to share?
Thanks in advance!

. I’m not seeking to make a fortune, just want to enjoy card counting. I’m not much of a social player, and most enjoy playing head-to-head with the dealer if I get to the tables when they first open. Wifey loves the social action; I avoid playing with her, because she doesn’t count, but always seems to win!

Ain't that always the way?
Clearwater. Some very upscale resorts there and lots of upscale restaurants and upscale catering services.
Steer clear of the Scientologists. The restaurants that cater to retired Pennsylvania Dutch are good but the food is rather bland.
Steer clear of ALL gambling boats no matter what they advertise. Sailings are erratic if they take place at all. Recall perhaps the recent death of a woman on a casino boat fire. Fifty people enjoyed the five dollar blackjack and twice a week five dollar craps. One of those fifty died. Her autopsy results are still 'pending'. So whether they say Tampa, Clearwater or St. John's Pass, stay away from those boats that exist more as websites than any reliable sailings.
Tampa's mega casino will be your most likely goal. Its been too long a time for me to give advice on crowds or anything. You want your own 3:2 table all to yourself? Be prepared to go 300 each hand at least afternoons and evenings.If you enjoy funky, antique, or gadget shopping, live music, and strolling down an arts district, downtown.St. Petersburg (maybe 10 miles from Clearwater) is one of the more interesting areas in.this part of the country. Central Avenue runs east to west, and is filled with independent restaurants, bars, galleries, shops, and 1/2 dozen museums, including the Salvador Dali museum with a highly recommended collection. Large, old independent bookseller Haslam's at 20th and Central.
They have great public transportation there (Clearwater-St. Pete and all their beach communities, also stretching north to Tarpon Springs, which is a Greek fishing village for centuries), with very cheap all-day passes, several interconnecting trolley lines, and frequent runs The St. Pete area is worth a half-day or full-day visit. The Looper takes you all up and down Central Avenue; think it's $.50 a ride unless you buy an all-day pass. The beach trolley run is interesting unless you're from Hawaii (kidding).
Start with this link
https://www.visitstpeteclearwater.com/article/ride-beach-trolley
and use the menus from there to access all their routes to different places. It seems to base in Clearwater, but there were 4-5 separate companies running trolleys that have now joined in one big cooperative effort.
Edit: this is the trolley and bus site..psta. you can access all the routes and fares from this.
https://www.psta.net/riding-psta/schedulesmap/suncoast-beach-trolley/
Boz: I see your tourism ad and raise you a sales pitch. I don't like Tampa itself much, but the communities farther west are fun.

Ain't that always the way?
Clearwater. Some very upscale resorts there and lots of upscale restaurants and upscale catering services.
Steer clear of the Scientologists. The restaurants that cater to retired Pennsylvania Dutch are good but the food is rather bland.
Steer clear of ALL gambling boats no matter what they advertise. Sailings are erratic if they take place at all. Recall perhaps the recent death of a woman on a casino boat fire. Fifty people enjoyed the five dollar blackjack and twice a week five dollar craps. One of those fifty died. Her autopsy results are still 'pending'. So whether they say Tampa, Clearwater or St. John's Pass, stay away from those boats that exist more as websites than any reliable sailings.
Tampa's mega casino will be your most likely goal. Its been too long a time for me to give advice on crowds or anything. You want your own 3:2 table all to yourself? Be prepared to go 300 each hand at least afternoons and evenings.

Fleastiff - Oi! Thanks for the tips - we saw what boat gambling is like on a short trip we took from Los Angeles to Ensenada, Mexico. Yeah, we’ll stay away from them.

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Big ouch on the pricey hands to enjoy 3:2 bj! This might be a non-gambling visit to best enjoy the food & sights before heading home.
Glad I checked to see the WOV now has the Mar 2018 Blackjack Survey. MSS no longer has $5 bj, but there are a selected few to savor. https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/

As for food, it’s currently Stone Crab season for another month or so. Frenchy’s with 4 locations in Clearwater beach and another in Dunedin (5 miles North) is a great place to enjoy them. Gulf caught shrimp can be found in almost every bar and restaurant around town. Clearwater Beach also has many options for Gulf Front restaurants that will satisfy your desires for fresh seafood. Crabbies is another good one and there is an incredible roof top bar and restaurant called Jimmy Guanas on top of the hotel at Pier House 60. Free shot at sunset and the best view of the sunset in the area. There are almost many boat trips that go into the bay and gulf for both dolphin cruises and sunset cruises. My favorite is the Tropics, good crew who gives you a good overview of the area. It’s like $25 for a 2 hour tour and well worth it.
My favorite steakhouse is actually LeeRoy Selmons but it is across the causeway in Tampa, a 20 minutes drive from Clearwater. Owned by a former Buc player, it is a middle of the road steakhouse. Higher rated is Flemings right down the street and is closer to a Morton’s.
Hope this helps and if you do get there, have time to enjoy all Clearwater has to offer.

You answered all my foodie questions, and then some! Wish we were going during the stone crab season, but you’ve provided so many options. We’ll probably arrive on a Thu, have time for a leisurely dinner (thank goodness, no fasting needed for the procedure), do a 2-3 hour outpatient procedure, have time for a 2nd great dinner, enjoy a full Sat of sightseeing, and then leave Sun. Appreciate the tips!

Start with this link
https://www.visitstpeteclearwater.com/article/ride-beach-trolley
and use the menus from there to access all their routes to different places. It seems to base in Clearwater, but there were 4-5 separate companies running trolleys that have now joined in one big cooperative effort.
Edit: this is the trolley and bus site..psta. you can access all the routes and fares from this.
https://www.psta.net/riding-psta/schedulesmap/suncoast-beach-trolley/

BBB!
How wonderful to read your tip-filled notes! Still haven’t figured out how you always have some thoughtful replies to all our posts- you don’t miss a beat, do you?

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Start with this link
https://www.visitstpeteclearwater.com/article/ride-beach-trolley
and use the menus from there to access all their routes to different places. It seems to base in Clearwater, but there were 4-5 separate companies running trolleys that have now joined in one big cooperative effort.
Edit: this is the trolley and bus site..psta. you can access all the routes and fares from this.
https://www.psta.net/riding-psta/schedulesmap/suncoast-beach-trolley/

BBB!
How wonderful to read your tip-filled notes! Still haven’t figured out how you always have some thoughtful replies to all our posts- you don’t miss a beat, do you?
Sure! In this particular case, my brother lived in St. Pete for several years recently, so I was over there a lot. But I became a trolley fan in London, then Paris. It's an outstanding way to get an informed idea of what's interesting in a tourist way, especially the hop-on hop-off types. You can really see everything, sort out what's interesting to you and where it is without a lot of time and expense hunting and parking and fighting unfamiliar traffic.

Sure! In this particular case, my brother lived in St. Pete for several years recently, so I was over there a lot. But I became a trolley fan in London, then Paris. It's an outstanding way to get an informed idea of what's interesting in a tourist way, especially the hop-on hop-off types. You can really see everything, sort out what's interesting to you and where it is without a lot of time and expense hunting and parking and fighting unfamiliar traffic.

Oh my, you’re a world traveler! I enjoyed similar world travels, but maybe not as adventurous as yours! Thank you for making me enjoy all your posts even more!